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Rolling with the Pentecostals. And Listening to Heidi Baker

By Anita Mathias


 Englishness and Pentecostalism: Can you think of more antithetical things?So watching the English version of Pentecostalism or Charismatic-ness always amuses me. It’s like the watching the English morph into Americans–or Nigerians.I am spending six days at the Pentecostal River Camp in Gloucestershire.

* * *

I came to RiverCamp with some Brennan Manning and John Eldredge books to listen to on my iPod as I walked by the river.

Well, it turns out that the River in River Camp is metaphorical. Duh!

It, in fact, describes my favourite river in the world, the river which flows from the sanctuary in Ezekiel 47 1-12.

Googling my own blog, I see I’ve written about it repeatedly. It is the river of creativity, of refreshing, renewal, and forgiveness—the only river in which you want to live. Where this water flows, the salty turns sweet. Trees on the banks of this river bear fruit every month. The fruit is good for food and the leaves for healing.

* * *

Heidi Baker spoke. Heidi is 53, but has the figure, energy, zip and personality of a bouncy teenager. She tells stories with absolute child-like delight, and jumps up and down with excitement as she tells them!!

Her life is her sermon. She apparently knows Christ as few do, and operated in a different dimension altogether in which miracles are normal.  Then she goes on stage and tells stories of the myriad miracles she has experienced in the course of her daily life in which she steps out on a limb daily, and it is more powerful than any theological sermon.

I have heard her thrice before, twice in Oxford, and once at New Wine in Somerset, but always gain new things from her (often repeated) stories. Well, she puts it this way—you may have been pregnant before, but when it comes time to push, you feel something!!

* * *

Heidi was severely dyslexic until the age of 16; her teachers mocked her inability to spell. After prayer for healing, she was healed completely of dyslexia and went on to get a Bachelor’s, Masters and even a Ph.D (in Systematic Theology, for heaven’s sake!) from Kings’ College, London.

I LOVE that story. The molecules in the brain can be healed just as much as the molecules in the body, the dyslexic receiving a Ph.D, just as later, her husband, Rolland Baker, who had advanced dementia, was miraculously healed.

I was myself was completely healed from a long, long burn-out ( the result of a toxic cocktail of overwork, stress and depression) which severely affected my reading speed, and my ability to concentrate for long hours after humbling myself by requesting prayer in a healing service at church in April 2010. The week I started blogging!! I wrote a sardonic post about the grammar of the healer—and later humbly realized, heck, grammar wasn’t essential to heal!

Without that complete healing, which restored my ability to read, write and concentrate for long hours, after a severe burn-out and intermittent depression which had lasted for many, many years, I not would have been able to blog or write successfully!!

Remember how Naaman was told to wash in the River Jordan (2 Kings 5).  Sometimes, healing or the spiritual gift you seek comes because you humble yourself and take the time to go and ask for it. (And often, the healing will come from someone who you may well feel supercilious about.)

* * *

One reason I find Heidi Baker inspiring is that  she makes following Christ sound joyful and easy. Listen, hang in there, press in, pray constantly, obey.

Heidi snorkels in the ocean outside her home in Mozambique. She goes knee-deep, then waist-deep, puts her face in, kicks her legs , lets go, and looks into an amazing new world.

Stepping into the Kingdom is like snorkelling, she said. Leave shore, go deep, deeper still, and look at your world, a new world, with the eyes of faith.

* * *

Here’s another story she told. When Heidi was 18, a Christian preacher came to her college, and said that God gave him a city. She sat in front, smiling, nodding, and thinking, “What a jerk!! Gave him a city!! As if God would give him a city.”

And she said she saw a vision of angel, pointing at the man, saying, “He’s telling the truth. Listen to him.”

And she collapsed saying, “Then give me a nation.” Do you hear her ambition? Nothing to be ashamed of in ambition for things of the Spirit.

She asked for the poorest, most desperate nation on earth, which was Mozambique.

She is building a university there, and has seen some of the 10,000abandoned children she has adopted and educated become professors, journalists, architects, doctors, nurses and preachers.

I recently chatted to a missionary to Africa who told me that Mozambique is one of the continent’s great success stories. Surely Heidi has played a part in this!

Anyway, lesson: Just because we’ve never heard of being given a city by God doesn’t mean it’s not true.

Just because we have never seen an angel (I haven’t, though I experienced angelic protection and deliverance numerous times) doesn’t mean no one does.

* * *

When we lived in Manchester where Roy as a Distinguished Visiting Professor in Maths at the University, we went to another healing meeting, for the aforementioned burn-out. The speaker, an American, kept pointing to corners of the room, saying, “There’s a large female angel there, over you in pink.” “And, you, sir,” pointing to a mild, inoffensive Englishmen, “God is doing something in you. I see angels around you.” The man turned around startled; so did I. Didn’t see any angels. I didn’t, at least.

“He believes in angels,” I whispered to the tune of the Abba song, “I have a Dream,” to my daughter, Zoe,  then 10, each time he saw another angel. “Ssssh, mum,” Zoe whispered. Apparently, she had been brought up to believe one should behave oneself in church!!

I later realised how stupid I was being. Just because I had never seen an angel does not mean that the speaker did not see one. Or the controversial Todd Bentley who says he sees an angel called Emma scattering gold dust. Yes, really. (He really says so,


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Filed Under: In which I chase the wild goose of the Holy Spirit Tagged With: Charismatics, Heidi Baker, holy spirit, Pentecostals, Wild Goose of the Holy Spirit

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Comments

  1. Elliot Morrison says

    September 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Went to a Heidi Baker meeting in Glasgow about 5 yrs ago. She was greeted like a rock star…….behaved on the platform like a 1970s hippy spaced out on drugs. For me the whole experience was not God honouring.

    Elliot

    • Anita Mathias says

      September 10, 2013 at 7:24 am

      There are many ways to honour God, and many expressions of spirituality. Heidi’s life honours God!

  2. John Vagabond says

    April 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Came across this via a link to Cwmbran and the outpouring there.Interesting about Heidi – she never starts till she’s ready. I was at a meeting in Jerusalem that she was speaking at and she just didn’t get going till the anointing fell. it was as if she was marking time, waiting for her turn to contribute. A remarkable lady.

    • Anita Mathias says

      April 24, 2013 at 3:45 pm

      Hey amazing. I would love to write and blog like that. Don’t say anything until God gives you something to say. And can you imagine how much time that would save–and how much weight and validity our words would have!

      • John Vagabond says

        April 24, 2013 at 5:26 pm

        Going to sign up with you if that’s OK – it seems we’re singing from similar hymnsheets. My blog’s a bit more eclectic but if you’d like to take a look, here it is…http://www.soupyskyepraise.blogspot.com. D’you know Phil Lawson-Johnston, btw?

        • Anita Mathias says

          April 24, 2013 at 6:03 pm

          Know of him. We’re in the same church, but it’s a large one. Yes, do subscribe, thanks! 🙂

  3. Rachel says

    August 24, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    Hey, thanks for that link. My experience was quite different, in that I was a teen when I was there, so it took a different form and a long time to even realize what went wrong.

    I think the thing I miss the most about the Pentecostals is the expectation of God's immediate help and the excitement in watching how that happens.

  4. Anita Mathias says

    August 24, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Hi Rachel,
    I know what you mean about “survivor.” I myself would never go to a charismatic church again, because I experienced spiritual abuse http://dreamingbeneaththespires.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/discovering-god-in-land-of-suffering.html
    in the last one I attended. And I like firm, rational scripture-based theology.

    But they have the missing dimension of joy, spontaneity, playfulness, openness to the spirit, to dreams and visions which is also part of my spirituality, and so going to Charismatic festivals feeds that part of my soul and keeps it alive.

    Ah, balance! We will have it in heaven, all elements of the rainbow in perfect balance!

  5. Rachel says

    August 23, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    The “charismatic church” survivor in me snorts: Healing? Cities? Nations? Angels? Come on. Prove it.

    But the quiet voice inside me questions: Is this healthy doubt, or really just envy? Yeah, probably envy, because I really do believe that God could do those things. Still, I can't listen to that kind of thing anymore. It's interesting to read your take on it.

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Oxford, England. Writer, memoirist, podcaster, blogger, Biblical meditation teacher, mum

Hi Friends, I have taped a meditation; do listen a Hi Friends, I have taped a meditation; do listen at this link: https://anitamathias.com/2025/04/08/the-kingdom-of-god-is-here-already-yet-not-yet-here-2/
It’s on the Kingdom of God, of which Christ so often spoke, which is here already—a mysterious, shimmering internal palace in which, in lightning flashes, we experience peace and joy, and yet, of course, not yet fully here. We sense the rainbowed presence of Christ in the song which pulses through creation. Christ strolls into our rooms with his wisdom and guidance, and things change. Our prayers are answered; we are healed; our hearts are strangely warmed. Sometimes.
And yet, we also experience evil within & all around us. Our own sin which can shatter our peace and the trajectory of our lives. And the sins of the world—its greed, dishonesty and environmental destruction.
But in this broken world, we still experience the glory of creation; “coincidences” which accelerate once we start praying, and shalom which envelops us like sudden sunshine. The portals into this Kingdom include repentance, gratitude, meditative breathing, and absolute surrender.
The Kingdom of God is here already. We can experience its beauty, peace and joy today through the presence of the Holy Spirit. But yet, since, in the Apostle Paul’s words, we do not struggle only “against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the unseen powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil,” its fullness still lingers…
Our daughter Zoe was ordained into the Church of E Our daughter Zoe was ordained into the Church of England in June. I have been on a social media break… but … better late than never. Enjoy!
First picture has my sister, Shalini, who kindly flew in from the US. Our lovely cousins Anthony and Sarah flank Zoe in the next picture.
The Bishop of London, Sarah Mullaly, ordained Zoe. You can see her praying that Zoe will be filled with the Holy Spirit!!
And here’s a meditation I’ve recorded, which you might enjoy. The link is also in my profile
https://anitamathias.com/2024/11/07/all-those-who-exalt-themselves-will-be-humbled-the-humble-will-be-exalted/
I have taped a meditation on Jesus statement in Ma I have taped a meditation on Jesus statement in Matthew 23, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Do listen here. https://anitamathias.com/2024/11/07/all-those-who-exalt-themselves-will-be-humbled-the-humble-will-be-exalted/
Link also in bio.
And so, Jesus states a law of life. Those who broadcast their amazingness will be humbled, since God dislikes—scorns that, as much as people do.  For to trumpet our success, wealth, brilliance, giftedness or popularity is to get distracted from our life’s purpose into worthless activity. Those who love power, who are sure they know best, and who must be the best, will eventually be humbled by God and life. For their focus has shifted from loving God, doing good work, and being a blessing to their family, friends, and the world towards impressing others, being enviable, perhaps famous. These things are houses built on sand, which will crumble when hammered by the waves of old age, infirmity or adversity. 
God resists the proud, Scripture tells us—those who crave the admiration and power which is His alone. So how do we resist pride? We slow down, so that we realise (and repent) when sheer pride sparks our allergies to people, our enmities, our determination to have our own way, or our grandiose ego-driven goals, and ambitions. Once we stop chasing limelight, a great quietness steals over our lives. We no longer need the drug of continual achievement, or to share images of glittering travel, parties, prizes or friends. We just enjoy them quietly. My life is for itself & not for a spectacle, Emerson wrote. And, as Jesus advises, we quit sharp-elbowing ourselves to sit with the shiniest people, but are content to hang out with ordinary people; and then, as Jesus said, we will inevitably, eventually, be summoned higher to the sparkling conversation we craved. 
One day, every knee will bow before the gentle lamb who was slain, now seated on the throne. We will all be silent before him. Let us live gently then, our eyes on Christ, continually asking for his power, his Spirit, and his direction, moving, dancing, in the direction that we sense him move.
Link to new podcast in Bio https://anitamathias.co Link to new podcast in Bio https://anitamathias.com/2024/02/20/how-jesus-dealt-with-hostility-and-enemies/
3 days before his death, Jesus rampages through the commercialised temple, overturning the tables of moneychangers. Who gave you the authority to do these things? his outraged adversaries ask. And Jesus shows us how to answer hostile questions. Slow down. Breathe. Quick arrow prayers!
Your enemies have no power over your life that your Father has not permitted them. Ask your Father for wisdom, remembering: Questions do not need to be answered. Are these questioners worthy of the treasures of your heart? Or would that be feeding pearls to hungry pigs, who might instead devour you?
Questions can contain pitfalls, traps, nooses. Jesus directly answered just three of the 183 questions he was asked, refusing to answer some; answering others with a good question.
But how do we get the inner calm and wisdom to recognise
and sidestep entrapping questions? Long before the day of
testing, practice slow, easy breathing, and tune in to the frequency of the Father. There’s no record of Jesus running, rushing, getting stressed, or lacking peace. He never spoke on his own, he told us, without checking in with the Father. So, no foolish, ill-judged statements. Breathing in the wisdom of the Father beside and within him, he, unintimidated, traps the trappers.
Wisdom begins with training ourselves to slow down and ask
the Father for guidance. Then our calm minds, made perceptive, will help us recognise danger and trick questions, even those coated in flattery, and sidestep them or refuse to answer.
We practice tuning in to heavenly wisdom by practising–asking God questions, and then listening for his answers about the best way to do simple things…organise a home or write. Then, we build upwards, asking for wisdom in more complex things.
Listening for the voice of God before we speak, and asking for a filling of the Spirit, which Jesus calls streams of living water within us, will give us wisdom to know what to say, which, frequently, is nothing at all. It will quieten us with the silence of God, which sings through the world, through sun and stars, sky and flowers.
Especially for @ samheckt Some very imperfect pi Especially for @ samheckt 
Some very imperfect pictures of my labradoodle Merry, and golden retriever Pippi.
And since, I’m on social media, if you are the meditating type, here’s a scriptural meditation on not being afraid, while being prudent. https://anitamathias.com/2024/01/03/do-not-be-afraid-but-do-be-prudent/
A new podcast. Link in bio https://anitamathias.c A new podcast. Link in bio
https://anitamathias.com/2024/01/03/do-not-be-afraid-but-do-be-prudent/
Do Not Be Afraid, but Do Be Prudent
“Do not be afraid,” a dream-angel tells Joseph, to marry Mary, who’s pregnant, though a virgin, for in our magical, God-invaded world, the Spirit has placed God in her. Call the baby Jesus, or The Lord saves, for he will drag people free from the chokehold of their sins.
And Joseph is not afraid. And the angel was right, for a star rose, signalling a new King of the Jews. Astrologers followed it, threatening King Herod, whose chief priests recounted Micah’s 600-year-old prophecy: the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, as Jesus had just been, while his parents from Nazareth registered for Augustus Caesar’s census of the entire Roman world. 
The Magi worshipped the baby, offering gold. And shepherds came, told by an angel of joy: that the Messiah, a saviour from all that oppresses, had just been born.
Then, suddenly, the dream-angel warned: Flee with the child to Egypt. For Herod plans to kill this baby, forever-King.
Do not be afraid, but still flee? Become a refugee? But lightning-bolt coincidences verified the angel’s first words: The magi with gold for the flight. Shepherds
telling of angels singing of coming inner peace. Joseph flees.
What’s the difference between fear and prudence? Fear is being frozen or panicked by imaginary what-ifs. It tenses our bodies; strains health, sleep and relationships; makes us stingy with ourselves & others; leads to overwork, & time wasted doing pointless things for fear of people’s opinions.
Prudence is wisdom-using our experience & spiritual discernment as we battle the demonic forces of this dark world, in Paul’s phrase.It’s fighting with divinely powerful weapons: truth, righteousness, faith, Scripture & prayer, while surrendering our thoughts to Christ. 
So let’s act prudently, wisely & bravely, silencing fear, while remaining alert to God’s guidance, delivered through inner peace or intuitions of danger and wrongness, our spiritual senses tuned to the Spirit’s “No,” his “Slow,” his “Go,” as cautious as a serpent, protected, while being as gentle as a lamb among wolves.
Link to post with podcast link in Bio or https://a Link to post with podcast link in Bio or https://anitamathias.com/2023/09/22/dont-walk-away-from-jesus-but-if-you-do-he-still-looks-at-you-and-loves-you/
Jesus came from a Kingdom of voluntary gentleness, in which
Christ, the Lion of Judah, stands at the centre of the throne in the guise of a lamb, looking as if it had been slain. No wonder his disciples struggled with his counter-cultural values. Oh, and we too!
The mother of the Apostles James and John, asks Jesus for a favour—that once He became King, her sons got the most important, prestigious seats at court, on his right and left. And the other ten, who would have liked the fame, glory, power,limelight and honour themselves are indignant and threatened.
Oh-oh, Jesus says. Who gets five talents, who gets one,
who gets great wealth and success, who doesn’t–that the
Father controls. Don’t waste your one precious and fleeting
life seeking to lord it over others or boss them around.
But, in his wry kindness, he offers the ambitious twelve
and us something better than the second or third place.
He tells us how to actually be the most important person to
others at work, in our friend group, social circle, or church:Use your talents, gifts, and energy to bless others.
And we instinctively know Jesus is right. The greatest people in our lives are the kind people who invested in us, guided us and whose wise, radiant words are engraved on our hearts.
Wanting to sit with the cleverest, most successful, most famous people is the path of restlessness and discontent. The competition is vast. But seek to see people, to listen intently, to be kind, to empathise, and doors fling wide open for you, you rare thing!
The greatest person is the one who serves, Jesus says. Serves by using the one, two, or five talents God has given us to bless others, by finding a place where our deep gladness and the world’s deep hunger meet. By writing which is a blessing, hospitality, walking with a sad friend, tidying a house.
And that is the only greatness worth having. That you yourself,your life and your work are a blessing to others. That the love and wisdom God pours into you lives in people’s hearts and minds, a blessing
https://anitamathias.com/.../dont-walk-away-from-j https://anitamathias.com/.../dont-walk-away-from-jesus.../
Sharing this podcast I recorded last week. LINK IN BIO
So Jesus makes a beautiful offer to the earnest, moral young man who came to him, seeking a spiritual life. Remarkably, the young man claims that he has kept all the commandments from his youth, including the command to love one’s neighbour as oneself, a statement Jesus does not challenge.
The challenge Jesus does offers him, however, the man cannot accept—to sell his vast possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow Jesus encumbered.
He leaves, grieving, and Jesus looks at him, loves him, and famously observes that it’s easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to live in the world of wonders which is living under Christ’s kingship, guidance and protection. 
He reassures his dismayed disciples, however, that with God even the treasure-burdened can squeeze into God’s kingdom, “for with God, all things are possible.”
Following him would quite literally mean walking into a world of daily wonders, and immensely rich conversation, walking through Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan, quite impossible to do with suitcases and backpacks laden with treasure. 
For what would we reject God’s specific, internally heard whisper or directive, a micro-call? That is the idol which currently grips and possesses us. 
Not all of us have great riches, nor is money everyone’s greatest temptation—it can be success, fame, universal esteem, you name it…
But, since with God all things are possible, even those who waver in their pursuit of God can still experience him in fits and snatches, find our spirits singing on a walk or during worship in church, or find our hearts strangely warmed by Scripture, and, sometimes, even “see” Christ stand before us. 
For Christ looks at us, Christ loves us, and says, “With God, all things are possible,” even we, the flawed, entering his beautiful Kingdom.
https://anitamathias.com/2023/09/07/how-to-find-th https://anitamathias.com/2023/09/07/how-to-find-the-freedom-of-forgiveness/
How to Find the Freedom of Forgiveness
Letting go on anger and forgiving is both an emotional transaction & a decision of the will. We discover we cannot command our emotions to forgive and relinquish anger. So how do we find the space and clarity of forgiveness in our mind, spirit & emotions?
When tormenting memories surface, our cortisol, adrenaline, blood pressure, and heart rate all rise. It’s good to take a literally quick walk with Jesus, to calm this neurological and physiological storm. And then honestly name these emotions… for feelings buried alive never die.
Then, in a process called “the healing of memories,” mentally visualise the painful scene, seeing Christ himself there, his eyes brimming with compassion. Ask Christ to heal the sting, to draw the poison from these memories of experiences. We are caterpillars in a ring of fire, as Martin Luther wrote--unable to rescue ourselves. We need help from above.
Accept what happened. What happened, happened. Then, as the Apostle Paul advises, give thanks in everything, though not for everything. Give thanks because God can bring good out of the swindle and the injustice. Ask him to bring magic and beauty from the ashes.
If, like the persistent widow Jesus spoke of, you want to pray for justice--that the swindler and the abusers’ characters are revealed, so many are protected, then do so--but first, purify your own life.
And now, just forgive. Say aloud, I forgive you for … You are setting a captive free. Yourself. Come alive. Be free. 
And when memories of deep injuries arise, say: “No. No. Not going there.” Stop repeating the devastating story to yourself or anyone else. Don’t waste your time & emotional energy, nor let yourself be overwhelmed by anger at someone else’s evil actions. Don’t let the past poison today. Refuse to allow reinjury. Deliberately think instead of things noble, lovely, admirable, excellent, and praiseworthy.
So keep trying, in obedience, to forgive, to let go of your anger until you suddenly realise that you have forgiven, and can remember past events without agitation. God be with us!
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