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	Comments on: On Vaughan Roberts’ interview, and the Case for Gay Christian Marriage	</title>
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	<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/</link>
	<description>Anita Mathias&#039;s Blog on Faith and Art</description>
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		<title>
		By: Anita Mathias		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18529</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anita Mathias]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18529</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow, I must admit I read it as his three reiterations of love wiped out his three denials of Jesus.

But I like your reading moree, &quot;I think Jesus asks three times &#039;Do you love me?&#039; Because he wants Peter to Hear that it is That which Ultimately counts, that the cross HAS dealt with ALL the sin.&quot; Just lovely. Thank you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I must admit I read it as his three reiterations of love wiped out his three denials of Jesus.</p>
<p>But I like your reading moree, &#8220;I think Jesus asks three times &#8216;Do you love me?&#8217; Because he wants Peter to Hear that it is That which Ultimately counts, that the cross HAS dealt with ALL the sin.&#8221; Just lovely. Thank you!</p>
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		By: Most Read Posts in 2012 on Dreaming Beneath the Spires &#124; Dreaming Beneath the Spires		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18528</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Most Read Posts in 2012 on Dreaming Beneath the Spires &#124; Dreaming Beneath the Spires]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2013 00:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18528</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] 2 On Vaughan Roberts’ Interview and the Case for Gay Christian Marriage. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 2 On Vaughan Roberts’ Interview and the Case for Gay Christian Marriage. [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Most Popular Posts in October on Dreaming Beneath the Spires &#124; Dreaming Beneath the Spires		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18533</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Most Popular Posts in October on Dreaming Beneath the Spires &#124; Dreaming Beneath the Spires]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2012 22:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[[...] 1 On Vaughan Roberts’ Interview and the Case for Gay Christian Marriage. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 1 On Vaughan Roberts’ Interview and the Case for Gay Christian Marriage. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18532</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18532</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Suem, I know many people who choose to not have sex, because they&#039;re not married and they believe that&#039;s the place for sex. Some live that out for a lifetime. It&#039;s a sincere desire to live out holy scripture.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suem, I know many people who choose to not have sex, because they&#39;re not married and they believe that&#39;s the place for sex. Some live that out for a lifetime. It&#39;s a sincere desire to live out holy scripture.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LA		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18527</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18527</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow, wonderfully stated, Suem...that deserves mention at my morning prayer group this morning!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, wonderfully stated, Suem&#8230;that deserves mention at my morning prayer group this morning!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Suem		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18526</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suem]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18526</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with you completely here, Anita. I can&#039;t take it seriously when heterosexuals say that gay people must choose life long celibacy while they happily go home to their own &quot;right kind&quot; of love and sex. I&#039;ve never met anyone who, out of solidarity with gay people, would commit to a life of celibacy.&lt;br /&gt;I call on all of those who are opposed to gay relationships who have commented in this post to commit themselves now to a life of sexual abstinence from this moment as a mark of solidarity and compassion for gay christians.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you completely here, Anita. I can&#39;t take it seriously when heterosexuals say that gay people must choose life long celibacy while they happily go home to their own &#8220;right kind&#8221; of love and sex. I&#39;ve never met anyone who, out of solidarity with gay people, would commit to a life of celibacy.<br />I call on all of those who are opposed to gay relationships who have commented in this post to commit themselves now to a life of sexual abstinence from this moment as a mark of solidarity and compassion for gay christians.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve P		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18525</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18525</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As Lindsay so rightly points out above, I am indeed a sinner. Totally. &lt;br /&gt;My point though, is that the scriptures make a clear distinction between a person who falls in sin, repents, and seeks to live out that repentance - and the person who simply continues living in their sin without repentance. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The passage you quote in Galatians 5 Lindsay, which lists sins of which we are all guilty, says in verse 21 that if we continue in those sins we will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The context for that passage of scripture, is that as we surrender to the Holy Spirit, we will not live out the lusts of the flesh. (v16,17) It&#039;s not saying &quot;here&#039;s a bunch of sins of which were are guiltily, but never mind, God loves us anyway.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The best way I can personally articulate the argument that people are born homosexual, is to say Yes! In the same way, I was born and grew up with lots of heterosexual  lust!  I wanted to have sex with any female that moved! That&#039;s what the bible calls the &#039;old nature&#039; or the flesh. But when we come to Christ we crucify the flesh. I can&#039;t just protest that I was born this way or worse &#039;God made me this way.&#039;  There are many heterosexual Christian men who have the same struggle against the flesh - but they crucify it and choose either marriage, or if they can&#039;t find a wife, they choose celibacy. Is that fair? No. But they choose to obey Gods word in order to inherit an eternal treasure. Thats a really tough choice to make and my heart goes out to the young man struggling with homosexual eroticism in the same way it goes out to the young man struggling with heterosexual eroticism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Lindsay so rightly points out above, I am indeed a sinner. Totally. <br />My point though, is that the scriptures make a clear distinction between a person who falls in sin, repents, and seeks to live out that repentance &#8211; and the person who simply continues living in their sin without repentance. </p>
<p>The passage you quote in Galatians 5 Lindsay, which lists sins of which we are all guilty, says in verse 21 that if we continue in those sins we will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The context for that passage of scripture, is that as we surrender to the Holy Spirit, we will not live out the lusts of the flesh. (v16,17) It&#39;s not saying &#8220;here&#39;s a bunch of sins of which were are guiltily, but never mind, God loves us anyway.&#8221;</p>
<p>The best way I can personally articulate the argument that people are born homosexual, is to say Yes! In the same way, I was born and grew up with lots of heterosexual  lust!  I wanted to have sex with any female that moved! That&#39;s what the bible calls the &#39;old nature&#39; or the flesh. But when we come to Christ we crucify the flesh. I can&#39;t just protest that I was born this way or worse &#39;God made me this way.&#39;  There are many heterosexual Christian men who have the same struggle against the flesh &#8211; but they crucify it and choose either marriage, or if they can&#39;t find a wife, they choose celibacy. Is that fair? No. But they choose to obey Gods word in order to inherit an eternal treasure. Thats a really tough choice to make and my heart goes out to the young man struggling with homosexual eroticism in the same way it goes out to the young man struggling with heterosexual eroticism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LA		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18524</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 04:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18524</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If homosexuality is a choice, why do people choose to be someone who is picked on, beat up, abused, driven to suicide, driven to therapy because of persecution complexes, ridiculed and belittled by people who wrongly and over-righteously think it&#039;s a choice, driven away from God&#039;s church by same people, fired from jobs, passed over for promotions, etc.  Why would someone CHOOSE to be treated that way?  Because they cannot change who God made them to be and they cannot choose their orientation.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And God IS big enough for everyone and all creation and doesn&#039;t need us to protect him from anyone even if we disagree with them.  He calls us to welcome and love all people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If homosexuality is a choice, why do people choose to be someone who is picked on, beat up, abused, driven to suicide, driven to therapy because of persecution complexes, ridiculed and belittled by people who wrongly and over-righteously think it&#39;s a choice, driven away from God&#39;s church by same people, fired from jobs, passed over for promotions, etc.  Why would someone CHOOSE to be treated that way?  Because they cannot change who God made them to be and they cannot choose their orientation.  </p>
<p>And God IS big enough for everyone and all creation and doesn&#39;t need us to protect him from anyone even if we disagree with them.  He calls us to welcome and love all people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: prochaskas		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18523</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[prochaskas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18523</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rebecca, somehow I&#039;ve never heard that distinction (being called &quot;sin&quot;) between the trajectories of women and slaves on the one hand and homosexuals on the other -- it&#039;s good and helpful food for thought.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m not entirely sure that the passages against homosexuality are against homosexuality in toto -- the kind of monogamous loving commitment we see with some gay people today seems to have not existed in biblical times, so it&#039;s hard to know whether it&#039;s violent, dominating, humiliating homosexual acts that are proscribed, or all homosexual acts. Arguments from silence (&quot;The Bible says nothing about loving homosexual monogamy&quot;) are inconclusive, but at the very least it would be good if folks could agree that it&#039;s not absolutely obvious and clear what the Bible says about gay marriage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can see the case for Christian gay marriage and for Christian gay celibacy. I can&#039;t see the case for same sex attraction being a choice. And I agree with you that there should be a civil union or secular marriage option at the least, with the same civil rights as for heterosexual marriages.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca, somehow I&#39;ve never heard that distinction (being called &#8220;sin&#8221;) between the trajectories of women and slaves on the one hand and homosexuals on the other &#8212; it&#39;s good and helpful food for thought.</p>
<p>I&#39;m not entirely sure that the passages against homosexuality are against homosexuality in toto &#8212; the kind of monogamous loving commitment we see with some gay people today seems to have not existed in biblical times, so it&#39;s hard to know whether it&#39;s violent, dominating, humiliating homosexual acts that are proscribed, or all homosexual acts. Arguments from silence (&#8220;The Bible says nothing about loving homosexual monogamy&#8221;) are inconclusive, but at the very least it would be good if folks could agree that it&#39;s not absolutely obvious and clear what the Bible says about gay marriage.</p>
<p>I can see the case for Christian gay marriage and for Christian gay celibacy. I can&#39;t see the case for same sex attraction being a choice. And I agree with you that there should be a civil union or secular marriage option at the least, with the same civil rights as for heterosexual marriages.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dana Rongione		</title>
		<link>https://anitamathias.com/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18522</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dana Rongione]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anitamathias.com/blog/2012/10/03/on-vaughan-roberts-interview-and-the-case-for-gay-christian-marriage/#comment-18522</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anita,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It breaks my heart to read this post and see you stand so contrary to the Word of God.  Homosexuality is not a disease one is born with; it is a choice just like every other sin.  Throughout life, we are all tempted with sins of various nature from lying to murder.  All are wrong.  All are choices.  All are sins, no more, no less.  And none of them will be excused.  Yes, Christ died for all sins, but we must accept that payment in order for it to be applied to our lives.  After that, we should not &quot;sin boldly&quot; as you put it, but we should fight against sin, striving not to allow it to gain a foothold in our lives.  Paul said it best in Romans 6:15, &quot;What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?  God forbid.&quot;  God&#039;s love and grace do not give us an excuse to sin.  As for you distinction in following Jesus not the Bible, they are one and the same.  John 1:1 tells us, &quot;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.&quot;  The Bible is either true or it isn&#039;t.  It is either our guidelines to living a spiritual life or it&#039;s not.  It can&#039;t be both, to pick and choose which verses you wish to apply and which you choose to ignore.  Yes, we as Christians need to reach out to homosexuals just as we reach out to the drunkards and prostitutes, but you don&#039;t reach the lost by condoning their sin.  You reach them by exposing their sin and showing them that Jesus paid for that sin and that they no longer have to be held captive by it.  God is loving, gracious and merciful, but above all, He is holy.  He will forgive our sin, but that doesn&#039;t mean He excuses it.  I pray He will open your eyes and the eyes of others to this truth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anita,</p>
<p>It breaks my heart to read this post and see you stand so contrary to the Word of God.  Homosexuality is not a disease one is born with; it is a choice just like every other sin.  Throughout life, we are all tempted with sins of various nature from lying to murder.  All are wrong.  All are choices.  All are sins, no more, no less.  And none of them will be excused.  Yes, Christ died for all sins, but we must accept that payment in order for it to be applied to our lives.  After that, we should not &#8220;sin boldly&#8221; as you put it, but we should fight against sin, striving not to allow it to gain a foothold in our lives.  Paul said it best in Romans 6:15, &#8220;What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?  God forbid.&#8221;  God&#39;s love and grace do not give us an excuse to sin.  As for you distinction in following Jesus not the Bible, they are one and the same.  John 1:1 tells us, &#8220;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.&#8221;  The Bible is either true or it isn&#39;t.  It is either our guidelines to living a spiritual life or it&#39;s not.  It can&#39;t be both, to pick and choose which verses you wish to apply and which you choose to ignore.  Yes, we as Christians need to reach out to homosexuals just as we reach out to the drunkards and prostitutes, but you don&#39;t reach the lost by condoning their sin.  You reach them by exposing their sin and showing them that Jesus paid for that sin and that they no longer have to be held captive by it.  God is loving, gracious and merciful, but above all, He is holy.  He will forgive our sin, but that doesn&#39;t mean He excuses it.  I pray He will open your eyes and the eyes of others to this truth.</p>
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